In this episode of Marketing Connect, we make Srinivas Adapa of Burger King sell a diet-conscious host some burgers & fries for a meal! Oh, did we tell you that the host is on a no-carbs, no-oil diet?
Find out what did Srini do the selling?
Transcript:
Saurabh: Hey, this is the marketing connect podcast, a show where we get up close and personal with some of the most celebrated marketeers in the country. We talked to them and discovered new answer of marketing after all. We are the show for marketeers by marketeers listen in.
Today, I am extremely extremely excited to bring to you see me from working. Srinivas from Burger King. He has about 15 years of experience with marketing and he’s work across categories companies and even businesses. Here is Srinivas for you.
Srinivas: Hi. I’m strany high-lead marketing for Burger King in India I come from a typical middle-class very high academic values kind of a family largely raised in Hyderabad and and post 12 pretty much have been on the Engineering MBAs obviously, that’s what I know. You know your thinking May 17th. 2004 was my first day at work. I started my career, right? So yeah 16 years. I’ve been a blur but but you know, if I go back to the journey writing one after my Lucknow days nowadays, I think I my first job. I I landed and Wipro Technologies and crazy right from there. In fact 2004 if you recall was the sunshine time for the whole idea and IT services sector, right and job on campus that I landed was a marketing job to propose building marketing strategic marketing team at time and interest of to be placed in the west coast of the US, right? So like, you know on campus it’s a big deal, right? If you land in international placement, it was a big deal and marketing was my love Sunrise economy and all of that. And anyway while you made it when I was 24 Life was looking great. And then I landed in Bangalore to to get started and I realized two things one, you know, this this equals taking time the whole US based maintenance service was going to take some more time to B2B marketing is very different from the conventional consumer branded marketing that most of us resonate with so I had to make changes and then one of the first on the tough choices in life that I had to make expected was to say hey, I got to stop this and get back to that time since I was six months down the line from the time I got plays and I was thinking I was a superstar I realized oh God. This is not what I want to do and it and it hasn’t been easy. Right? I had to now go back to all the FMCG companies, you know, go back with my resume and say Hey, I want to looking at a marketing job and looking at a job in FMCG career in it. It took some by land. Luckily one of the places where I’ve done summer internship was kind enough. Take me from there and put me into a training role a quick fix sales training management trainee road before they groom me for a larger. And in fact one of the time of reconciliation of in it, really hit me hard. And as part of this all of us do a sales of assistant in can see here. I’ve basically you go counter to counter store to store you sell about 40-45 Outlets a day and all of that and my first first day was when I ended up in this market called Nasabgad so they was me. Coming from Bangalore it South Indian boy on a bike selling oil and vanspati is for the in wholesale Market in other word. So that allows you to baptism by fire when I started that night. I still remember, you know, the big the aggressive not Indian wholesale Market the Delhi Market, you know, they would say numbers like she 76 Paise a budget by saying Man-eating clam the whole day together a little bit relieved. So to kind of reconcile to all of that. But what is like me going is passion for marketing because I was clear that that was the path. And and and when I look back really sort of like this absolutely no regrets laboratory do I don’t be afraid of it and it’s been quite a crispy rice from there on I have to give the fi6 crazy thing the stuff that I’ve done as far as our journey. You know, I was wonderful. Is to launch a peanut butter in India manou launches peanut butter in the I eat then in 2005. I’m whenever I go to the grocery store. I still look out and I’m like, it’s still there not bad and drop your head but it is still there. Then I moved on to Hines where I was working and getting couch learning curve like a 150 year old Heritage brand is to work with all India radio used to do real Marketing in Bihar some of the stuff that we’ve done with all India radio ziz. Is cold even now in these big content is from their own. I obviously joined Kellogg joined the log in 2011 and has a lead for Innovations in India some really fantastic work and I are almost close to seven years career with Kellogg and the whole journey of Kellogg has been creating categories, right Indians are not really naturally due to eating a breakfast like serious, right look at a breakfast, right currently. I’ll breakthroughs are hot breakfasts are Savory breakfasts are soft right and I’ll click the star superbly filling right piratas of Miles Dosa breakfast cereal is anything but that right. It’s it’s cold milk. Technically. It’s crunchy and it’s kind of getting energizes you but but not really super feeling right? So the whole seven year Journey has been in Dream from a marketing perspective because we were building categories against such consumer odds, right and really loved You better learn to our marketing ideas very fairly crazy stuff at one point of time. I was heading market research for Kellogg’s in Africa guys on a one-week trip to Kenya where I landed in Nairobi instead the end of this one. We had to come out with a whole marketing was trampled. He logs in Kenya, right? So yeah, as I was actually three years, I was in South Africa as part of Kellogg. I came back to the infirmary 18 and I quit in 2017 and when I could kill again here and a few months later, I was heading the category for breakfast. Yeah currently as we talked I had marketing for Burger King in India. It’s close to almost two years. Now in this role. Another Super exciting journey is really cut through AG brand and a lump who work with and make I said 16 years been a blood quite a few crazy things and really enjoy the journey.
Saurabh: So I ask you the question. I think I can. Think of is that you know, you work in a category with the player wherein you are a challenger and test as in there is obviously of far larger competitors that does a very very good job in terms of visit high visibility Marketing in terms of their locations in terms of the presence. So what are the you know, how is it to work with a challenger brand?
Srinivas: Challenger brands are more fun. Simply because one you are. Sort of an underdog and it is nice liberating to be an underdog invited packet. Number one. Number two in most challenge of Brands. They know holy cows when you look at marketing when you look at the they can go about it really gives you a nice week and was to kind of do what you think will be the right thing to do, right and third. I think it’s very enriching for me learning and a career perspective right. I also mean by they called out. I will also be a non-issue fairly established leader Brands and wear more often than not I’m not saying it’s everywhere but more often than not there’s a set template there’s a way that needs to be done. There’s a timing, you know, when the seal sales buckets are you know, what works what doesn’t work. So it’s a bit boring if I might say what a challenge a brand is nothing cast in stone right up to you what you do? I think it’s really pushes you on the entrepreneurial side of it and I love it.
Saurabh: So what is happening around? Is the neck in the last two or three years consumers have started to become far more you no conscience about what they eat it as a look at me for example, right so I have cut carved out of my diet keeping. I’m going to do a fasting as well. Be lost example is peddling the second looks like one imperial correct. So if I if I say that I’m not gonna have any breakfast at all because I’m doing is no milk no cereals You look at your business planning. What kind of things would you want to? Look at I don’t want the marketing campaign Pacific. What would be the first few insights that you will think of and then start executing on that?
Srinivas: So, you know what sort of great question if I take Kellogg’s first, I think the big thing with the whole market and the whole segmentation like you say is there is enough opportunities, especially with food be packaged or actual restaurant food in India, right food the whole size of by of food is very very big in India. Like we all hope you’re all so he’s like the say and Numbers are there Etc. But the big opportunity is the penetration is very low, right? If you look at packaged food penetration, India, I wonder what the number is now I haven’t seen it in the last two years. But and best it might be somewhere in the in 10 percentage plus kind of the range right versus what you look at in more developed countries should be equal to the US or UK would be more 70 80 % + but giving people a country like a finger in some other Southeast Asian countries. Also, how are you want 50% penetration. So your answer lot of potential for packaged food penetration. Number one and number two. It’s also about being relevant to the consumers that you choose to work with right in the case of Kellogg. For example, a lot of people in India. Skip breakfast not because they’re following a died just because they do not have the time or access to it. Failing a nutritious breakfast option, right? That in itself is a huge market. Right? And that in itself is a huge challenge for the brand to leverage. So yes, they are upcoming Trends. We are point where people are being of diamonds and stuff, which is perhaps more natural more protein, but every brand has a business speak of my past experience.
There is whole Market out. There is a big penetration opportunity out there and find somebody doesn’t want to eat calories. I think fast food will be the last thing that I would uh as a marketeer, right? But you know what there is always a cheat day right? There is always risk is always Gloomy Sunday afternoon, but that’s the time you look me up on a swigy zomato is a matter or just come to my restaurant. Right and I will make sure that the cheat days is really worth it.
Saurabh: I enjoy the day I fight with my girlfriend or my partner is the way when I look for a pizza or a burger to thank you out of that mood.
Srinivas: To answer your question. Yes, I think to put it put it sharply answer to your question would be yes, they are different segments, but just the potential in itself of both the brands immense number one number two, it’s also about making your message relevant to both the audience and the occasion that you choose brands and then Evolve with time so so we will we will see both the brands adapt and evolve as a consumer Trends a much.
Saurabh: Let’s find somebody who’s got four to five years of experience in the marketing business. You know, I got it’ll be full in 2014 2013 and I look up to somebody like you that you in the next 10 years. I need to be a head of marketing function at a exciting brand. So what could they be doing? juniours to manage a day People meditate would you advise the also near thought of man? Is it
Srinivas: See is managing and day Refugee are quite a few, you know, published articles and columns as well where people talk about how have we taken the structured better was even how how you are in a day can be structured better, but I think I want to leave with one or two nuggets from my own personal experience, right is this Especially to your point. Like I said, you know 2014-2015 pass out currently would be you know, mostly senior brand manager or just about ready to get into a category one. Mostly one should always have a game plan and and the game plan can be can be made into multiple Cuts right? Obviously, there’s a career game planned. It is portable and and is a month or every what came plan does is basically helps you balance this whole stuff around reactive. This practice stuff and that’s the biggest thing in corporate and offices in India currently, right? You always want to do a certain thing, but you end up the data we have what did I do? Right or you go through the whole week and say yeah. This is not what I planned to do, right? So having a game plan just keeps you, you know conscious of what you want to achieve the day or two the beep whichever is a timeframe you why not do it for sure. But at least you know, if this is what I wanted, I think that what the second thing again, Something which I would call as you know, pick up those Pockets of Learning right the bigger thing. I begin my careers are always learning doesn’t happen because you attend a conference or you read a book it does but perhaps less than 10% about 70 to 80 percent of learning happens on the job, right? It happens when you are doing it. It happens when you’re picking stuff from your seniors. Your dead boss is by whom you love the most and of course you are other seniors in the company or even period so be aware of those Pockets of Learning and grab them with both hands, right and good evening when you get that right? If you are making a media plan for the first time and you’re working with the media head of the company might not be your dread boss. Don’t just take the box and say I need to get it done by 5, right. This is an opportunity to learn because once you do that and the commission is set. It is very handy as you know, right? Yeah broadly these to just be proactive have a game plan cut into proactive and reactive. Intersections of the day at least opposed to three things that you want to do yourself be very aware of learning opportunities.
Saurabh: So tell me what are the key is that you look at when you run a campaign to create a new campaign. What kind of interview?
Srinivas: Mostly campaign to campaign objectives do change they only keep increasing but if I were to say they would be built into two parts of the two to three parts which are really giving. Analog them, right As it can be an object you I think the first and foremost is always a clear metric clearly very defined number which is the same as output, especially if you look at a setup or a category like industry like suicidal that I’m currently working working. So you would mostly have footfalls and number of people working in a restaurant as a kpi whatever you’re camping whatever you do has to get people back into your restaurants. They should be preferring. Well in terms under the best way of manifesting thing that manifest is in numbers in terms of Walkins and overall sales, right. So any marketing campaign Aryan from all my years of working always and should have a sales-related clear capable of cases. There is a campaign that says there is no sales Cape Air in there something wrong, honestly and it all perhaps it’s not sustainable and that’s what the second thing again for every campaign and increasingly in these times in the last few years. The Clutter and amount of content is only going up consumers have lesser waking hours and lesser time then compared to the amount of content. That’s up there in the it is the kpi unplanned salience write the number of eyeballs and exposures that you’ve delivered on the campaign. Right? And that’s not really just a function of the amount of money spent. It’s also about how much did your campaign travel right? How is your campaign sticking? How much is your is the Getting it as a forward on your WhatsApp or wanting to read it a wanting to see that video that you I think gone are those days when we used to right foot goes our money on TV and just push it push it right? Yeah. So that’s the second kpi, which is on on the whole salience part of these two, I think are given for any campaign the campaign, but the third one could be more subject to and topically do the stuff that you do. Like for example, we’ve done stuff on a launch of one of a new formats which we call the loaded ramps, right? So there was clearly about driving awareness of the launch, right? We just needed an X percentage table looking so that’s again very specific. So I will leave it with these three the first two are kind of universal to most of the campaign’s that we do third one is more specific to what you’ve done it with the launch of a new product it could be about Valentine’s Day window from a business perspective or it could just be about something to do with a new launch a shake or a breakfast session.
Saurabh: Got this you mentioned interesting thing in the last answer. You said that one of the times when you will spend a boatload of money on buying media for PV and then hope that it travels far. So this one we understand what are the current and in our own specific. But if you can tell me what is the marketing mix in terms of channels right now, I will be making more work for some people and how is that no for be there is moved over the period.
Srinivas: Yeah, so I think I’ll a limited top three. And it is very : typical for our kind of show business the top three. Basically you would be TV, TV still is our single biggest salience in driver and not just for this category, but overall in India the cost for reading the cost of investment for the number of views that you get and matched by TV still right? So if you have a big Mass message where you need to talk to billions of people at Disposable wait TV is the number one media right until your viewership and penetration is very high up there right as much as there are other modes are increasing interpretation TV still so in terms of your mix, your question TV is absolutely there in the top three second one is obviously digital which is you know, both social media, but also stuff that you see as an ad placement in in terms of YouTuber instagram at you. For digital is number two and number three is really the point of purchase pictures presents a malls are restaurants on drive-throughs. Or even or even restaurants in the area lies in bandra or another so that’s really the third which is the point of purchase so terms of investment and talk to remix platforms that we choose evil.
Saurabh: So my next question is Burger King is the brand But it happens to be a brand which is you know, a global brand presence across the world per se so how easy or tough is it to, you know work with these Global mandets? And then please and to Regional, you know, sensitivity and and cultural difference in boxes. So how do you navigate that discussion in detail?
Srinivas: Yeah, and this is a conversation lot of MNCs lot of good room conversations have been on this point. And I think now there are enough find very good case studies of brands that have really cracked this and I think this is not as tough as it might look from outside. I’ll try Make it simple firstly there are two things which are very local in nature. And this changes from country to Country. First foremost food is very local in nature. Right? What we eat in India is very different from what we eat in China or even Sri Lanka which are like makes neighboring countries, right or even or even being with in Southeast Asia again as much as they’re all together geography cleats. So who is very local in nature? So if you look at most of the brands in India, the the Ian I can give you a lot of food example that’s been for a great lord. Lord of the food brands have really adapted and and brought in the western formats, but in a way that Indians would appreciate right. So for example, if you go back to Kellogg’s one of the fastest selling variant, there is basically conflicts with almond, honey. Right, which is basically bottom and And I need that’s nothing but I want any and it just makes a difference to the consumer. It’s very presented in the local format, right and again in terms of whole culture, which is again, the second Point food is local and again culture is very local cultural nuances the insights that play is no other country, which has a festival like the Diwali right? There is not a country which has 14 big festivals in one year right? There is no other country. There are whole law and the equation the camera treated families have with parents and siblings is very different in India Comparatively other things, right? So for example, look at some of the stuff that can breezes than the very position the chocolates, right which is coach meet. How would I or celebration, you know infants begin very local in nature. So to ask you a question really the business continues to be what it is, which is a global business can also continues to give up a serious. It’s the proposition continues to be what it is, which is global which is in sense of making mornings better or giving you the right energy in the morning when you have compromised a nutrition for mornings and so forth or in the case of were looking a good enjoyable time while having your favorite food in restaurants, right the propositions the business all remain the same what is different and this is where Brands win or not win is to make the food
It is local cultural ones, right? Then it speaks better than your campaigns work better than you’re talking in the right way. It will consume a lot of Brands which you try to just copy paste works in the US or UK both the food and cultural Nuance really red fire so much. Yeah, we really distill it in a shop simple with these two I think grams which got it right really work for the big.
Saurabh: The next set of question is around Corona. So what is happening over the last two three months and nobody seems to be knowing then this convened this would go away from our life. How is Burger King? You know, when you adapt itself to the new realities of the world that we live in for at least the next six months?
Srinivas: I think one first and foremost. You know we are we are in the business of restaurant. So be a pretty much in the center of it as far as the whole disruption is concerned. And and what we are doing in Burger King really is one as a global Q Sr. As a global Q Sr of being around for a few decades now, we have fairly involved processes on health safety sanitization and cleanliness, right? It’s kind of protocols and every crew member goes through training. Everybody is a regular training mechanism. Everybody wants to end some people so that whole training process fans for it is in a restaurant learning all of these things. So it’s fairly imbibed into our DNA. Right? But what you’ve done is we’ve kind of taken this and your turn them up a few notches higher saying hey Federal if this was ever relevant, this is the time right? Once you answer your question as a q Sr. As a global Q Sr with all this process established in people trained and having it at the core of our DNA. We feel good that we are prepared. For something like this right in terms of surface in a way, which is absolutely sanitized team hygiene Right. In fact when this whole thing came up and we realize what we’re dealing with the said everything stops. And the number one priority is the safety of our Crew right safety of Co and consumer is that number one priority that said number two. Like I said, we just tied up this whole piece one. Safety sanitization and health and hygiene. Do you what we really bringing in Surah when I can’t wait to show everybody once the restaurants open be creating a whole new unique experience, right? So so the restaurants when they open really a good look much different right? Imagine this you working to a Burger King restaurant straight away. You see floor markers, you know, just calling it out saying hey peacefully intense distance while you order your right. Then you do that walk to the counter there. You see the crew completely sanitized with a blows with their masks Bubbles and load it is look the whole way is going to be different. Then you get the whole package of food, which is completely factored. So that only you can invoke in it and then you walk into the restaurant of the lobby area there again, you see there are few tables which are just Mark for saying it. This is an anti-social table. So to say right because I need to pretend distance even when you re so it’s the whole look and feel is going to be much different. What we’re trying to do is to blend this seamlessly without disrupting the good time that we offer in our restaurant the other day a passport experience about four of my friends moving and having a good deal spending time joking around, you know, sharing each other’s fries what it is, right? We will have done it experience because
Saurabh: It’s a communal experience.
Srinivas: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so we want to blend as seamlessly as we can some of these social distancing Norms into the whole thing. And last one is I think we take will play a very big role. So what we doing in Burger King is we going to launch a diming zero contact dining app basically in an through which you can do all of this you don’t have to stand in the queue. You don’t have to pay cash so that there is any contact possible everything happens. Sitting in the restaurant. I walk into a burger restaurant. I will open the ambling. Am I placed the order I get a notification saying your food is ready. You can add whatever you want your food the Choi saying and then you pay three of ATM or whichever quality are using and have the food on your table and you can put it like it. Please post it back up there and come back soon. So it’s really trying to get into that experience when you open.
Saurabh: So this is one of those cases like wearing marketing is not just about the function of marketing. What is about communication for separate also about you know, getting to know getting technology getting new processes getting into you know, business operated. So marketing sort of becomes a wider role.
Srinivas: Yeah. Absolutely. So I for one guy our might be old school or my always thought marketing as a very integrated anything special would it B2c kind of an industry where consumer is the heart of it? Marketing has to own the strategy marketing has to own the whole consumer Journey experience comes and complains development just happens to be one part of it. Right eventually owned the whole growth agenda of the company. You want to entire consumer journey of the kind of humor is is in contact with the brand which pretty end-to-end and digital or Tech is one only one part of it. The comms is Only one part of it like everything if I take an example above everything from the crew uniform right to the tissue the to the speaker or the poster on the bathroom and hand version. Last everything is the consumer Journey right experience, right? So everything is something which we should in marketing you need in most cases because at the end of the day the consumer-led growth is marketed so clear clear. For promoting that.
Saurabh: So tell me business of communication will change in the post covid world and brought his epistle click link which will promote digital less TV what happens so what will change what will not change if it has one
Srinivas: And I don’t think anybody has a specific answer. Nobody knows how it’s going wall, but I can call it a few things that I am seeing from where I am the first one of the things that we are seeing overall.
Increasing the whole digitization of business Seeing this all around. So for example if you see as we talk The whole education the online education or digitization of education has gone up massively in the last two months, right? If you see I’ve seen some charts the other day on social media the US retail e-commerce contribution. I think for almost a decade or two has been hovering around 10 10 to 15% which is now gone to 25% in the last two months. Right what hasn’t happened in two decades has happened basically once right the whole entertainment is going you’re getting digitized as we see now, right? We realize we reading stuff around the big-budget movie is releasing on the OTT platforms, right? So I think that’s a trend that we want to see and I think my next bed as we’ve talked. I think we’re going to see more digitization of sports and gaming right? I don’t know what that means. But it’s that’s likely to be digitized food and food delivery. We spoke that’s that’s been on the digitization go for a couple of years now with the whole food Tech platforms that are right. So a lot of other businesses and other categories the whole ramp of deceleration is I grew up. That’s one one key area or entering that that I think as I said, I that I can call it out, right? Number two, I think in terms of comms I would put it more as a marketing Journey more than just calms I think Brands and marketers need to think through how do you plan the consumer experience in any valving evolving situation like this? Right? Like for example, I can speak for my industry. If we if the percentage of people venturing out to restaurants are only X percentage right compared to what it was before now. How do I State deliver the brand experience today? Nate how do I still make it make them feel that they are in a Burger King restaurant as much as how do I still maintain brand salience? Right? How do I still get my fair share of mine? Because they’re not coming to a physical setting a table in a restaurant. I can do much more than if somebody were not really coming there right very clearly. So I think that will be the big challenge in terms of delivering a marketing experience with the new reality and number two. How do we continue to grow? Vance aliens in a situation like this and three as much as we know we were very clear to one of your earlier questions. What are the typical? What’s a typical media makes when you crash marketing Benedict TV outdoor and blah blah blah, that would be I think kind of challenged and kind of put a question mark. So for example, you know, one of our teams globally has already done this what they’ve done is they’ve taken all the Burger King outdoors and made them as backgrounds in Zoom. So we really need to think through as to how will you be relevant? As a brand and in terms of the journey in terms of Australians and what media choices will give.
Saurabh: Apart from What You Do for Burger King and zoom then some example that will give me about your Global team. Is there any other branded message or initiative from a different area could be your degree on the market in these times? Like, you know this value of the of the crisis.
Srinivas: I got a few favorite brands of mine and it’s no surprise that they continue to be very relevant and very controlled in terms of messaging even in these family my all-time cap. My all-time favorite Brands is Mikey. And very completely with no personal. Well just from a strict marketing lens the kind of work. They do kind of advertising they do and the kind of revenues. Did they do right? It’s it’s not just a brand which is which is very good to see stuff. If you look at their market share and their business. It’s literally double the next guy, right and they do it consistently across country. So Nike continues to appear in man. Look at the stuff that they’ve done with the whole lockdown right where this area. For you might be playing in your own home gym, or you might be playing on your yoga mat. Now, you might be thinking nobody’s watching you but you’re actually playing for 4.4 billion or 7 billion people all over the world just beautiful and they do it consistently. Well socially off
Speaker 3: I have my friend online who’s also a part-time stand-up comedian and is a great fan.On of burger Wandering Burger King even during the lockdown and he has this question to ask you so For to him.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Hi Srinivas . This is this is great being mean gonna you know podcast with you and thanks saurabh. Thanks for the introduction. And yes, thanks for the burgers too I have a very tactical question, you know around this whole situation where we are, you know, we’re forced to not have one-on-one interactions. Physically. We are we are supposed to adopt the digital way of doing things. I’ve been a marketeer myself for for about 13 14 years and you know, they always say in fact this is ancient wisdom that the brief is the key to any campaign. So I wanted to understand from you how easy or difficult has it been for you and your team to get the briefing right on be campaigns without even meeting the teams and the agencies physically and if it has been simplified to an extent. Where it is definitely seen as very much feasible. Will it be the way going forward also the whole digital, you know, even the briefs happening digitally entirely remotely.
Srinivas: The question I think firstly let me say thanks for the love and working. We spend a lot of time to ensure a single every single order is kind of perfect love and taking pills and to your question specifically first. Let me tell you physical separation or working in distinct teams is perhaps the least of the issues to actually screw up a brief. There are a lot of other reasons and I can Microscope behind anything this tool is good and you should talk to a few agency guy is the kind of joke that they would have. I’m sure in terms of work fries with 30 ask someone brief kind of thing. Right? So I think what I’m missing really in the current digitally operational model in terms of briefing the agencies Etc is the quality time that would you go creating stuff a lot of stuff actually gets cool. Created when I sit creative guy with my digital guy with a white board. So that whole brainstorming session where you kind of eat of each other where you kind of Leverage where you put in long hours and you know, you just come out of it feeling good. I’m missing that for some reason, you know, the old digital environment whole thing makes a say something be reacts he comes and I’m missing that magic of you know, five six of us getting locked in a room. When coming out with Kick-Ass creative stuff, so it’s more the second part of it briefing is still easy because bleeding away. It was normally is a lot of time has to be spent by the brand teams on the market people to come out with a very very sharp and clear brief that can Inspire the duties that is still a great team led by Magic after that. Once they come up with round one round two and then the end of Soviet and it
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